How not to be an arsehole 101

[sebastienne]

Dear all,

Just in case anyone missed the memo, you have no right whatsoever to comment on the eating habits of strangers.

Dear random man in the uni offices,

I have no idea what you meant by, 'That'll keep you going!!' (I use multiple punctuation advisedly, to make you look like the arsehole you undoubtedly are), but I assume it was some kind of 'witty' comment on the appropriateness of my lunch-choice (which, for the record, was a jacket potato with baked beans, cheese, and salad, and a bottle of apple juice - but it wouldn't have mattered if I was eating a carrot stick or a big mac). If I had been dealing with binge-eating or bulimia issues - which, let's face it, as a fat girl in this society I'm bloody lucky to have mostly escaped without - then your throwaway comment could have precipitated any number of maladaptive behavioural responses, when all I wanted to do was eat my lunch and get on with reading my book in peace.

Please ask yourself why you think it is appropriate to comment on the eating habits of strangers. When you realise that the answer is because you feel no power in your own life, and thus feel the need to exercise power over strangers in order to cope with the meaninglessness of your own existence, then I suggest you join a political party or lobbying group and leave my eating habits the fuck alone.

Best,

Emma.

(As an aside, why is it always older men (50+) who appear to feel that they have this right? They're always the ones who think that they can demand I smile for them, as well. Patriarchy In Action, or just a generational thing?)

Comments

[liminereid.livejournal.com]

Aha men in office commenting on food. I feel your pain.
Bloody Hugh

[stained_glass]

.... bastard.

Yeah, that would have set me off.

[spawnofweevil.livejournal.com]

But a potato is a good healthy lunch... it's more filling than what I usually do, but this is a GOOD thing!

Yeah, I get the older men making comments like that all the time, it can be annoying.

[jacinthsong.livejournal.com]

Rargh, and hugs. Though I've never personally noticed any generational differences in people telling me to smile, or commenting on my food. (The latter hasn't happened in a while, thank goodness - though that might have something to do with the fact that I've been put off eating anything in public other than lunch in the park by work) Except maybe that older men seem to have perfected a tone of well-meaning joviality rather than "cheeky boy" semi-aggressiveness.

xxx

[ophe1ia-in-red.livejournal.com]

What a tosspot. For the record, I would have regarded that as an injunction not to eat for the rest of the week—hell, having a proper meal can make me accuse myself of eating too much. Stupid, stupid man.

[vampire-kitten.livejournal.com]

Kill him with sticks?

[potatofiend.livejournal.com]

What the hell. I don't even know what that could possibly have been intended to mean, particularly given your pretty healthy lunch choice (not that it's any of his business anyway).

Gnargh. Yeah, that would really have messed me up with paranoia.

[sir-rosealot.livejournal.com]

Where I worked, the men didn't really say anything, but if there was a tin of chocolates other women would say, "Ooh, are you being naughty?" or similar if people ate them and it pissed me off no end.

[sugar-and-space.livejournal.com]

"no, lacing the last lot with arsenic was 'naughty'."

[antoniabaker.livejournal.com]

giggles

[brightlywoven.livejournal.com]

someone needs a good stomping on!

[dreamstothesky.livejournal.com]

My tuppences worth, as usual, is probably not welcome but here goes anyway. I understand why his remark made you cross, I really do; but I strongly suspect that it wasn't meant with any maliace.

It is the sort of thing I say all of the time to my friends and colleagues, a kind of ice-breaker with a rough interpretation of "That's a good hearty meal, you won't be hungry for a while after that my friend!". Like talking about the weather, or talking about what you are planning for the weekend.

He almost certainly doesn't realise that food is such a sensitive subject for you and many others; I can sympathise. If it eating disorders have never touched your life, it might never cross one's mind that such comments may affect folk adversely.

I've been very lucky to have never been afflicted by eating disorders, and even now I find it very odd that people put cut things for 'triggers', and am astounded by the strength of feeling that comes pouring out every time the issue is raised.

Of course, this is not a problem with y'all, it is my ignorance; but a large majority of people share this. If you read more meaning into speech than is really there and let it upset you so, I dispair for you because as far as I can see you are cursed to be miserable for the rest of your life. Unless, of course, you can first educate the rest of us and then convince the unwashed masses to care enough about your feelings to moderate their speech.

I'm not trolling, I really am not. It might well be that he was in actual fact a real mean old man slapping you down to make himself feel better in which case I echo the rest of the sentiments.

[sebastienne.livejournal.com]

I'm just having this discussion over on Facebook; it might be more fruitful for you to jump in over here (http://www.facebook.com/emmaclarelewis?ref=profile#/note.php?note_id=128883422149&comments).

[jacinthsong.livejournal.com]

My Chair Leg of Truth seems slightly redundant after your patient anger, but *stompy stompy stomp*

Can I burn people for you?

[sir-rosealot.livejournal.com]

I am sorry for making a snide comment on it. I just got so cross when I read what that guy was saying, and as I only saw it quite late in the discussion, it was just a barrage of awfulness.

[andustar.livejournal.com]

Okay, I'll bite.

'I strongly suspect that it wasn't meant with any maliace.'

It wasn't really meant with any clue either though. And does it matter?

As I was walking home today, as a guy cycled past me he yelled 'YOU FUCKING CUNT'.

It seems likely that this had nothing to do with me. As far as I can tell he was just shouting it to himself all the way down the road. He was probably pissed off at someone he knew. He was probably too out of it to even notice I was there. Perhaps he was mentally ill. Perhaps deep down inside he is a good human being wasn't intentionally trying to hurt me.

But so what?

We're never going to see into either of their minds to be able to tell whether they really were 'real mean (old/young) men' or just clueless. But why does it matter? What they did was still unacceptable and worth calling out. They don't have to have been actively trying to hurt us to be playing out these tropes of power imbalances and rudeness.

[necaris.livejournal.com]

Well. Um. On the one hand, I completely agree that it's none of his business and inappropriate to be commenting on someone else's eating habits. On the other...

He almost certainly doesn't realise that food is such a sensitive subject for you and many others; I can sympathise. If it eating disorders have never touched your life, it might never cross one's mind that such comments may affect folk adversely.

Not that many men I know have had eating disorders touch their lives, and certainly none of the men I know who are 20+ years older; the thought simply doesn't cross their minds that it could be any more offensive than "that's an interesting-looking book you're reading". (Doubtless the thought doesn't cross their minds either that this could be inappropriate or intimidating or anything of that sort -- in their heads they're just being friendly). Should they be called on it? Absolutely. Should they be taught what they're doing wrong? Of course.

But I'm not sure whether you can blame them for their ignorance?

Triggers in Comment...

[grignoter.livejournal.com]

dreams, I completely understand where you are coming from. And to some extent I agree - this guy probably had no clue that what he was saying was any more offensive than "lovely day, eh?"

He won't have known, because if someone said it to him, it wouldn't have been any more offensive.

Then again, if I didn't know that someone had a chronic pain condition and I shook their hand vigorously when meeting then, I would not have intended to hurt them, but I still would have done so.

Now, I'm not suggesting the guy should be able to psychically guess who has eating issues and who doesn't, but if he had ever chosen to educate himself about women, he would probably have realised that most women have some level of eating issues, and a high proportion have borderline or full-blown eating disorders.

Does this make him as bad as a rapist or wife-beater? Of course not. But it does mean that he hurt someone, and with a little bit of empathy and thought about what it's like to be female in this world, he might not have done.

You talk about reading meaning into speech - but the meaning in speech is not only the meaning that was intended. Words have multiple meanings and cultural connotations and that is a fact of life. A conversation is always coloured by the listeners feelings as much as the speakers intentions. And it is not easy to simply "step outside" the feelings that you have as they are complex and can take years of therapy to unpick and challenge.

Let me give you an example closer to home.

If you saw me eating something and made a comment about how it would be very filling, you would not mean to be unkind. In my head, I would hear that I was eating too much and it was disgusting and made me look masculine and greedy and that is why I am fat and I should have some self-control and eat less and look like a proper woman and stop letting my stupid greed overpower me.

None of those things follow logically from what you said. None of them are true. But they do follow logically from what women are taught by society every day. And even when you rationally know that things are not true, you can still feel strongly like they are, and that can overpower your rational faculties.

I would know that you hadn't meant to imply those things. I would not feel angry with you, but I would feel angry with myself, and disgusted. It would be difficult not to go and vomit up my food, although these days I would probably manage it.

You are not responsible for the mindset that has been created for women any more than I am. However, given how many of the women you know and care for could react like this, could you make a comment like this knowing what you know now?

[sugar-and-space.livejournal.com]

My personal favourite is "Cheer up (love), it may never happen". One of these days, someone'll say that, i'll tell them my parents just died or something...

[ophe1ia-in-red.livejournal.com]

This actually happened to me on a train, about a month after my boyfriend died. I wish I had been in a mental place where I could call the moron out and make him feel really uncomfortable, but instead I just shrank into my seat and got upset, and then rather angry, afterwards.

[ayaron.livejournal.com]

:O(

[unkoogabriel.livejournal.com]

Oh, what a fucker. There have been numerous periods in my life during which I would have probably not eaten lunch for a week as a result of something like that.

[countess-rezia.livejournal.com]

yep, that comment would have almost certainly had me fighting very very hard to keep the fingers out of my throat (and possibly failing to, depending on various factors). And then not eating for some days.

Now that's my problem; but if that guy didn't have a clue that his comment could have that affect on some poeple then he, and the world at large, should at least be made aware of it.

[sebastiality.livejournal.com]

I have experienced the same kind of thing with being vegetarian. Men and occasionally women (usually 50+) have said things like this to me:
1. "You're vegetarian? That's a bit gay, isn't it?"
or 2. "No wonder you're so small and pale!"
or 3. "You could do with some meat on/in you..." or some other stultifying comment.

I tend to respond:
1."Yeah, I am 'gay' about my vegetarianism but, seriously, being vegetarian doesn't make you gay: my brother is vegetarian and not gay."
2. "Being vegetarian doesn't make you short/scrawny: my brother is 6'1". Re - the pale thing: I'm British."
3. "I'm sorry. You're not my type."

People are narrow-minded and insensitive. It sucks. I am sure that at school (and *hopefully not* at Uni) I have made such hurtful/triggering comments to fat people. I kind of know how it's like and I wouldn't want to make anyone feel that way.

I like your mood icon.

[sebastienne.livejournal.com]

That's really interesting, because I've barely ever had problems with my vegetarianism, it always seems to be the fact that I'm daring to eat / buy food at all, whether it's healthy or not.. funny how the same basic tropes affect us in different ways. People suck!