(no subject)

[sebastienne]

Even if you aren't vegetarian, you might be interested to know that Mars Products (Twix, Milky Way, Bounty...) have started producing their chocolate using a by-product of veal production. A lot of non-vegetarians are principled enough to use only free-range eggs, and to me veal and battery eggs fall into very similar ethical categories. Please give consideration to a boycott.

One question - why?

ETA - To correct my misconceptions. Veal, it seems, does not have to come from crate-raised "battery" calves. While it's still not a pleasant industry, it does not necessitate quite the level of crate-rearing I had assumed. Free-range veal is possible. I don't know what kind of farming Mars are planning to source their rennet from, so this post may only be of interest to veggies, after all.

Comments

[ex-leighwoos982.livejournal.com]

Oh great. now I can't eat Mars bars. They were like a whole MEAL to me.

Mope.

[aliche.livejournal.com]

Well that's certainly interesting. I've already got a boycott on Nestlé at work because because of their dealings in the third world and mother's baby milk.
I shall make sure I don't buy Mars as well now. (yeah I know I eat veal, but come on, what the fuck are they doing using a by-product of veal production on such a large quantity! Fuck wits.)

[daddi-cade.livejournal.com]

Wait... maybe it's a vast govn't conspiracy to get us all to lose weight in the face of the "obesity epidemic timebomb shock" ...!

[daddi-cade.livejournal.com]

I'm not a vegetarian, but I don't eat veal on principle, so Mars Bars are off my menu. I have to say, BOO! And indeed, why change it?

[the-whybird.livejournal.com]

Wait, hold on a moment. Rennet *is* a by-product of veal production, but only because veal is made from calves; you can get rennet from any calf, not just one that's been raised for veal. And given that raising calves for veal would be quite expensive (I think -- I'm assuming this, based on the fact that veal is more expensive than beef) it seems to me they'd be more likely just to use rennet from non-veal calves.

P.S. Any non-vegetarian cheese, and most non-GM cheeses (there are some vegetarian non-GM cheeses, but they're still under development), will also be using rennet from calves' stomachs.

[sebastienne.livejournal.com]

what do they kill calves for that isn't veal, though? if it has to be calves, not adult cows, that they get the rennet from, i'm not sure there's any other source. i always thought rennet=veal, anyway, and wikipedia backs me up. i do accept that i might be wrong, however, and if anyone can prove me wrong i'll edit accordingly.

[darthfox.livejournal.com]

They could be a by-product of free-range (humanely-raised) veal as well, though; it's not just crate-raised calves' stomachs that are suitable for rennet production. (But many if not most non-vegetarians who object to crate-raised veal have no or at least fewer issues with free-range veal.)

[sebastienne.livejournal.com]

The concept of free-range veal is not one that I had come across. I was under the impression that the calves had to be inhibited in their movement for the sake of the meat.. was I got at by animal rights propaganda at a young age? Oh dear.

[sebastienne.livejournal.com]

After a good prod around Wikipedia's talk page it seems that it is anaemia-inducing formula-milk diets which are vital for the quality of the meat, and not the lack of movement. While inducing purposefully inducing anaemia is not pleasant, I can see why it's different to the crate-raising issue to a lot of non-veggies. Shall edit accordingly.

[darthfox.livejournal.com]

There are (mean, mean) purists who would argue that crate-raised veal is "better", but they are fewer and fewer, because (as you say) my GOD.

Here's from "How to Cook Everything" by Mark Bittman:

Needless to say, veal is the subject of much debate. Old-guard chefs, food writers, and industry representatives continue to argue that the only way to obtain white, tender veal is to raise calves in crates in a borderline state of anemia. And they are right about one thing: Anemic, underdeveloped calves have exceedingly pale and tender meat. But tenderness is not a problem with any young animal; the primary determinant is age, not exercise. To me, "milk-fed" veal (which is in fact fed with a formula containing not only milk but antibiotics) is distinguished by its lack of color, undistinguished flavor, and fork-tenderness (which you might call mushiness). It's also distinguished by the singular cruelty of its production methods.

That's why I strive to find what the USDA calls "calf", also sold as "humanely raised" veal. There are differences: Calf is rosy pink rather than pinkish-white. Calf may be slightly chewier, though it's still quite tender. And calf is likely to have been raised in ways that I don't find objectionable. Some calves, in fact, roam with their mothers (I'd call that "milk-fed").

(p.443)

That's the only source I have to hand, but, yeah.

Of course, if you don't eat meat at all, this is not likely to change the landscape much. But, short answer, yes, calf rennet can be a byproduct of a non-factory-type meat-farming situation.

And now, off to work (at, rest assured, a place that has nothing to do with the production of meat at any stage [g]).

[highfantastical.livejournal.com]

Argh, argh! I will definitely boycott.

[vass]

Goodness knows why.

It's as inexplicable as L-cysteine as a 'bread-improver'. (That's hair. Usually horse hair as a slaughterhouse product, but there have been instances where it was human hair from women in the third world.) The vegan hot-dogs I buy have "L-cycsteine (non-animal source)" on their ingredients list - I keep wincing and wondering whether humans count as animals or not.

Agreed that people who avoid cheese with animal rennet should probably avoid Mars products too, then.

[deathbyshinies.livejournal.com]

*grabs the thread and gallops off-topic with it in her teeth*

Eee! I'm so glad you two have added each other! *hugs you both*

Also: ick, ick, ick. What is wrong with the people who are in charge of food standards, whether regulating them externally or working within companies? I know, I know, cost-cutting, but still. Hope this comes back to bite them in the bottom line when chocolate-eating vegetarians refuse to buy the product... Now I have this awful mental picture of a Mars company food technologist sitting back and saying "Mmmn, this Mars Bar's pretty good... needs more calf stomach, though."...

[darwinian-woman.livejournal.com]

Ugh! I'm going to miss Minstrels :(

[jacinthsong.livejournal.com]

MINSTRELS

oh noooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

[jacinthsong.livejournal.com]

and maltesers.

I hate everything.

[darwinian-woman.livejournal.com]

Yes, the Mars people are definitely made of CRUEL. Why do they mock us so?

*weeps brokenly*

[jacinthsong.livejournal.com]

bollocks, I munched my way through twixes the other day. thanks for the heads up.

[mi-guida.livejournal.com]

Those are still ok though. It's all products with an expiry date after 1st October 2001 - they started using the rennet on I-can't-remember-whatth of May, so anything with a date up to 1st October is rennet free.

For boycotting purposes we should stop now, though.

[fi-h.livejournal.com]

Umm did you mean 2001?

[mi-guida.livejournal.com]

Um, no.

I'm just delusional. The lawfirms forms have eaten my brain.

Alternatively, 1st October This Year AKA 2007. I think.

[hildabeast.livejournal.com]

this is a bummer. can't eat nestle, they're evil. can't eat cadbury, they're owned by coca cola who are evil. now can't eat masterfoods! there is NO CHOCOLATE LEFT. galaxy and divine, please don't turn evil any time soon...

[sebastienne.livejournal.com]

of interest? (http://www.ethiscore.org/report.aspx?ID=214970&free=true)

[hildabeast.livejournal.com]

they all suck. it makes me feel like i shouldn't eat anything!

[jacinthsong.livejournal.com]

I thought Galaxy was owned by Mars :( Green&Blacks/Divine it is. Or mail-ordering Montezuma (http://www.montezumas.co.uk/montezuma/)...*drool*

[hildabeast.livejournal.com]

woe :(

[pozorvlak.livejournal.com]

This may or may not be an issue, but G&B is owned by Cadbury, who, while probably not as evil as P&G or Nestlé, are far from perfect (http://www.badscience.net/?p=398).

[stronglight.livejournal.com]

Galaxy is Mars...

Here is a list showing the confectionary type things and which have rennet used for their whey and which don't.

Anyone who wants to boycott the entire company should read that list and also bear in mind that petfoods Pedigree, Whiskas, and Cesar, and Uncle Ben's food products are also made by Mars.

And as Emma points out - it appears to be rennet rather than necessarily veal-rennet, so it is not vegetarian but if you don't mind eating normal meat there's probably no big reason to object. (http://www.dracos.co.uk/activism/mars/)

[stronglight.livejournal.com]

Eeep. Somewhat extended link. Forgot to close it!

[hildabeast.livejournal.com]

well i eat meat but i prefer to choose when i'm eating it... i have come to terms with jelly and ice cream and marshmallows but i don't want chocolate to be meaty. it's just kind of wrong.

[andustar.livejournal.com]

Or buy chocolate from Israeli companies. Kosher laws means no animal derived stuff in the cheese or chocolate.

[pozorvlak.livejournal.com]

From what I can see, Cadbury-Schweppes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadbury_Schweppes) are not in fact owned by Coca-Cola. The confusion probably arose because they sold the UK (and other) rights to the Schweppes trademarks to Coca-Cola. So when you buy Schweppes tonic in the UK, you're buying a Coca-Cola prouct. If you buy it in Poland, on the other hand, you're buying a Pepsi product...

And Green & Black's are owned by Cadbury's, but then your post suggests that you knew that. I remember when the buyout happened, and some newspaper asked "will this lead to a dilution of G&B's ethical standards?" The Cadbury's spokesman said "Well, we are a Quaker firm, we've been doing this "ethical" thing for a while..." :-)

[pozorvlak.livejournal.com]

But poorly (http://www.badscience.net/?p=398), it seems...

[sebastiality.livejournal.com]

Thanks for letting me know! xxx

[jacinthsong.livejournal.com]

argh, so much anger, it does not abate.

"If the customer is an extremely strict vegetarian, then we are sorry the products are no longer suitable, but a less strict vegetarian should enjoy our chocolate,"
okay, so it's now "extremely strict" to not eat things scraped out of dead cows' stomachs? ffs.

I just don't get why either - when vegetarianism is an increasingly popular choice, why cut yourself off from a large section of your market? surely it can't be that much more expensive to continue using vegetarian whey?

[terminalbeach.livejournal.com]

Oh... that's disgusting.
Life without Mars or Snickers is hard to imagine, but everything eventually comes to an end, and we have to move on.
I will have to learn to build my own chocolate.

[petrichor-fizz.livejournal.com]

Lord. I already boycott Nestlé; now Mars too. Oh well.

[germainsgame.livejournal.com]

mwahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahaha hahahaha hahaha haha ha

etc.

from the way-ahead-of-you association of non-chocolate eaters.

if t'were me though, I'd keep on eating it. As they're not going to be killing any more calves, they're just using the ones that die already more efficiently. If you are going to kill something, at least don't waste that death. I say using every damn by-product you can surely raises the worth of the beast and so the worth of giving it a healthy, happy life (however short).

[hithluin.livejournal.com]

Hi there,

Hey, sorry to barge in but you didn't have an email address listed. Just wanted to let you know that you've got an invite for doctorwho_eps waiting for you. You can pick it up here: http://www.livejournal.com/manage/invites.bml

All is explained within the community (you'll find a "welcome back!" message linked from the community's sidebar).

-Jenna (hithluin)

[sebastienne.livejournal.com]

Oh, thank you! I am so so lucky to be in a comm this well maintained :)

[sebastiality.livejournal.com]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6673549.stm

LOOK! Yay!x