(no subject)

[sebastienne]

who is the prejudiced one in this situation: it's so confusing!

my nan is afraid about having to be looked after by a social worker (far, far in the future for her yet, but it's happening to some of her friends, so it's on her mind). she's talking about the terrible things the council is doing to a friend of hers, when she drops the line, "i'm not a racist, but..".

this immediately sets me off, mentally. people who use that line are always prejudiced in the way they claim not to be, right?

she continues: "i'm not a racist, but i'd want to move away before i get to that stage, because i wouldn't want to have a social worker in this area, because they're all coloured like the one my friend has"

i nod, silent, frozen-faced. she's just proved me right. "it's just difficult, if your hearing's going, to understand anybody, let alone somebody with a heavy accent - and that's the problem my friend has had with all her social workers"

am i ageist by assuming that old people are racist? is my gran racist? am i prejudiced against people who say "i'm not prejudiced, but..." ? argh!!

all i'm really saying is, isn't it funny how quick i am to label somebody else as prejudiced? too quick, in fact...

Comments

[otterylexa.livejournal.com]

FWIW, I would think exactly the same as you did...

[sushi-radical.livejournal.com]

Well, she does seem to assume that anyone who isn't white must have a heavy-ass accent...

Though, I guess that when she was younger (and forming her opinions) the majority of non-white people were fairly new to the country and woulda had strong accents. maybe.

Nah, fukkit, yo nanna's goin to hell.

[saf2285.livejournal.com]

Once upon a time (about 3 months ago) my gran's social worker came round. She's black. She had locked herself out of her car (it must have been an old one) and asked to use my gran's phone to call a mechanic. My gran obliged, and also offered her some lemonade whilst she waited. However, as soon as she was gone, my gran threw the glass which had contained the lemonade in the bin, and got my dad to take apart and disinfect the phone.

I honestly can't see how my gran could be so very two-faced about it. I do think it's a generational thing, but I'm also a coward. I think it's better to accept it than to confront such deeply-rooted beliefs. I might well be wrong on this, but it leads to an easier life, and the way I see it within 20 years such people will be gone and we can live in a half-decent society. Maybe. Hopefully.

[anotherusedpage.livejournal.com]

Fuck's sake.

First off, can reassure you it's not old people. My grandparents never did the senile-racism-that-you-can't-call-them-on thing. I've since met other old people (many other old people) who fit the stereotype, but it doesn't always hold true.

Second off, there's the thing of old people growing up in a time when this was acceptable. It's not prejudice if you assume that the culture that someone grew up in will have had an effect on their behaviour / attitudes - as long as you don't generalise from that / hate all old people cos they might be racist, etc. Which you don't. So.

Third off, going with saf to say, give it 20 years and hopefully the old people = racist thing will be less of a problem.

Finally, how about suggesting that she spends some time in the company of "coloured" people right now, so by the time she needs a social worker she'll be able to understand the "funny accent"

[mi-guida.livejournal.com]

My ha'penn'orth:

My great aunt is now in a nursing home, and the odds of her ever standing again, let alone walking and doing anything, are slim to zero. She's taken a shine to one of the Polish carers: she says all the ones from the local area, the Yorkshire men and women, are nasty, but this Polish girl is lovely, and please can she move home and take her with her to look after her. Complete reverse, and not what I expected when I saw her - because I was assuming (partly from past experience of her, not that that makes it any better) that she would be prejudiced against anyone who wasn't Yorkshire for the past 10 generations.

[sushi-radical.livejournal.com]

I think you can extent that to

"I'm not X, but..." always prefaces an X statement.

I especially hate "I don't mean to be rude, but..." as a substitute for manners and tact.

[petrichor-fizz.livejournal.com]

Ditto "no offence", or "with all due respect".

[sushi-radical.livejournal.com]

Oh, yeah, other great classics!

Any more?

Ummm...

"Don't get me wrong, but..."

[antoniabaker.livejournal.com]

oh my favourite was 'can I ask you a personal question' which generally translates to can I insult you in a passive agressive manner, and if you get annoyed you are being overely sensitive after all 'i was just asking#

[sushi-radical.livejournal.com]

Ah... ow... yeah, know that one far too well...

[glamwhorebunni.livejournal.com]

My gran's more racist tho. She calls people nig nogs...

[vampire-kitten.livejournal.com]

heh, my gran does that too. Although my gran isn't so much racist, as anyone-who-isn't-an-immediate-family-memeber-ist(exclusing my mom and sister and her ex-husband)

The things she says about people with southern accents can be terribly amusing...

[sushi-radical.livejournal.com]

God, my uncle just uses straight 'niggers'... It's so embaressing... last time I saw him (about ten years, admittedly, he might have improved), he used it about five times through the evening, and every time, everyone visably winced... He seemed blissfully unaware though. Of course, no-one said anything.

Random Thoughts...

[neoanjou.livejournal.com]

Attacking it from a certain perspective we can deconstruct her thoughts into two thoughts;

i) I wouldn't like to have a carer who I couldn't understand.
ii) I believe that coloured people have heavy accents I cannot understand.

The first statement I think we can all acknowledge as reasonable, therefore lets look at the second; Wikipedia defines racism as:

"Racism is a belief in the moral or biological superiority of one race or ethnic group over another or others. The term racism is also sometimes used to refer to preference for one's own ethnic group (ethnocentrism), fear of difference (xenophobia)[citation needed], views or preferences against interbreeding of the races (miscegenation), and nationalism, regardless of any explicit belief in superiority or inferiority."

One could interpret the second statement as being either ethnocentric, or xenophobic, but I don't think they were said in that spirit - to be honest IMHO its racist only in the sense that she assumes that she won't be able to understand a carer from another race, but would be able to understand a White/British/English/Southern or whatever carer. Its an assumption based upon some anecdotal evidence, but still as an observation it didn't need to be made.

I'm not wishing to be offensive ( :-p )I think that you're maybe overreacting a little (well actually I can see where you're coming from because you're using this to highlight an issue, not actually expecting a philosophical critique of the offhand remarks of an old lady). Saying 'I'm not a racist' can be a get-out-clause in some people's minds, therefore any statement following it should be looked upon with caution; however here I believe your Gran is just expressing her fear of having to work with someone she can't understand, however she has unfortunately associated this with the issue on race, therefore clouding the major point.

As a final point prejudice of an in itself isn't a bad thing - by which I mean that having a model of a person's personality based upon your previous experiences with similar people - If I'm meeting an English student my prejudices tell me not to immediately start talking about science - but one should not become so wedded to one's prejudices that they continue to colour the perceptions of the person when alternate evidence becomes available - for instance I'm pretty sure Laurie enjoy 'Punk Science'.

[pozorvlak.livejournal.com]

I think that's pretty mild - I wouldn't worry about your nan joining Combat 18 any time soon. Though I'm probably only saying that because I want to exonerate myself: I have a Cameroonian and a Chinese office-mate, and largely avoid talking to them because of the accent problem. They both have really thick accents...

Prejudice and discrimination are over-used with appalling imprecision

[ex-leighwoos982.livejournal.com]

Yes, your Gran is a racist, because she essentialises coloured people (a racial characteristic) as being heavy accented, and proposes to exclude potential carers based on their being coloured. This is also small minded and ethnocentric.

Yes, it is ageist to presume that old people are racist. Their are plenty enough wrinkly geneticists who will tell you that 'race' is a shallow delusion of culture.

I still feel disappointed in my family when they show their racist/homophobic sides. I am sure that they only do that now because they know that I know that nothing I say on the matter will change their minds and they will then feel entitled to take offence at being challenged. My grandparents maintain shocking bigotries, for the most part bred from the small-minded nationalism that they participated in as youths, incubated by low levels of literacy and education. For my grandparents it was good to be all things British, Straight and White and all good things were British, Straight and White. Their understanding of the world is a simple as that and they haven't the ability to imagine an alternative.