sebastienne: (dresden)
[personal profile] sebastienne
I am just fucking sick of this. Everywhere I look I see a) anti-feminist backlash and b) people claiming that feminism is pointless because women have equality now.

From the Early Learning Centre (you know, the only place my mum could buy me ungendered toys when I was growing up and she was trying to keep me free from all that bullshit?) "For the little princess in the family we have great feminine outfits like Butterfly Fairy, Sleeping Beauty, Ballerina and Nurse’s uniform. Why not add a medical case for that extra touch of authenticity.

The boys are catered for too, with great Doctor, Policeman & Fireman uniforms, not to mention fantastic Pirate and Knight costumes. All these can be combined with a range of accessories so your child will really look the part."


MEN ARE DOCTORS AND WOMEN ARE NURSES. WHAT IS THIS, 1950?

From the organisers of Latitude festival: encouraging women not to get themselves raped (hugely triggering for rape culture). NO. Flist, for your reference, HERE is a list of rape-prevention tips that ACTUALLY WORK.

And in the middle of all of this, there are men and women going around believing that anyone who still calls themself a feminist is some kind of extremist, because basically, feminism's done. Oh, well done, patriarchy. That one's a masterstroke.

Lashings of Ginger Beer do important awareness-raising stuff, and I'm happy to devote my life to it. But sometimes, it feels like nothing I could ever do will ever be enough to smash this bullshit. Because it's getting worse. We're going backwards. Our Daughters Will Never Be Free.

Date: 2010-07-22 11:24 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anotherusedpage.livejournal.com
*stands with you a while*

This. All of this.

Date: 2010-07-22 12:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] robot-mel.livejournal.com
I'm glad to know it's not just me that gets sick of this shit!

Love the rape prevention tips! Those are awesome!

I'm going over to penny's saturday for a BBQ with the library students. Is it ok if I mention the July London show to her? I know she was talking about wanting to see you perform.

Date: 2010-07-22 12:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] huggyrei.livejournal.com
grr...

I remember being given a nurses's outfit, a pram, and a toy kitchen. I used the cape to be superman, the pram I tied to my waste and pretended to be a centaur, and I ignored the kitchen to turn the the large box it came in into a secret base, complete with guns and binoculars from the spyholes. I remember being very jealous when I got dolls and my brother got cars. I'm not happy to hear that this sort of thing is still a problem.

Oddly, I tend to find that the men at my workplace are fine, but it's the women who often seem to feel that they should give me 'helpful' advice about wearing make-up and high heels and talking about less geeky things because it will 'make me feel more feminine'. It seemed to confuse them when I replied that wearing a monkey suit would also make me feel more like a monkey, but that this wasn't a good argument for doing so.

Although it's luckily not a big problem for me, I definitely still feel that there are people who make assumptions about me or expect me to do things because I'm a woman. The fact that I feel this is true means that it *is* a problem.

Date: 2010-07-22 12:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sebastienne.livejournal.com
Oh, please do! I'm perfectly fine with it being publicised to anyone, except you-know-who...

Date: 2010-07-22 12:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ormery.livejournal.com
WHAT EARLY LEARNING CENTRE WHY D:

I work in a toy shop right now :(
It is frequently like beating my head against a wall for me, except with none of the stress relief that I usually get from doing that

every fuckin day I am there I get shit like "is this a doctor's set or a nurse's set? I need a present for a girl" or "oh no I need something lighter, it's for a girl, this ball is for proper football she can't have that", and when I say "hey the gender binary maybe not so great!" most people just sort of ... look at me with this expression like "aw it's cute how naïve you are", although the other day when I told a lady that I wasn't keen on that sort of stuff she actually just looked right down her nose at me and sneered, "well I can see that"

Yesterday I think I made a difference for a guy who was looking to buy a scooter for his son and went from "he definitely won't be getting a pink one" to "well I guess he might prefer a pink one considering other stuff he likes, we'll see", but this happens so rarely that most of the time I just want to quit

I swear, I worked in a comic book shop for a year – you know, one of those nerdholes renowned for their inhabitants' inability to grasp the idea that anyone with tits might be even interested in coming in there – and the sexism there was more bearable than this fucking toy shop. /FLIPS A TABLE

Date: 2010-07-22 01:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] robot-mel.livejournal.com
Will do then! :) I think i can guess...

Date: 2010-07-22 01:56 pm (UTC)

Date: 2010-07-22 02:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] frank-snow.livejournal.com
This is exactly what I was taught, in dribs and drabs, throughout my upbringing, particularly at an all-boys' grammar school. Despite seeing the basic principles of equality being self-evident to me, I didn't trust feminism. Based on what I thought I knew, these people would have to have an agenda beyond simple equality.

Honestly, it's one of the most clever things the upholders of a status quo can do because it requires so little effort but leads to people who should be on the other side fighting your battles for you.

I have no idea what to do about it. Maybe send all the PSHE teachers to prison. Fucking PSHE.

Date: 2010-07-22 02:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ophe1ia-in-red.livejournal.com
Even the dog and tiger costumes are on boys. :( There doesn’t seem to be a single ”girls’” costume that isn’t a dress.

However, I was pleased to see that there is a boy playing with toy cupcakes (http://www.elc.co.uk/Cupcake-Tea-Party/120702,default,pd.html). Also, haha, here is an amazing ‘Oh crap, this picture needs a boy in it” Photoshop fail (http://www.elc.co.uk/Step-2-Grand-Walk-In-Kitchen/123735,default,pd.html).

Um, but, derailing aside, yeah, what you said. :)

I wish I knew of a good way of getting feminism 101 percolating into forums other than feminist safe spaces. I’ve read a lot of great articles about feminist issues lately which have been mostly followed up by comments about how glad the readers are that the author wasn’t one of those terrible extremist, man-hating, hairy-legged feminists who want ‘special rights’ for women. I’ve considered pointing out that this is a pretty ill-founded and offensive attitude, but I’m not sure I really have the know-how to do it well…

Date: 2010-07-22 02:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ophe1ia-in-red.livejournal.com
p.s. Now I really want to play with the Timmy Time nursery (http://www.elc.co.uk/Timmy-Time-Nursery/122169,default,pd.html).

Date: 2010-07-22 02:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] queerpup.livejournal.com
Yep, I've been furious at the ELC for caving in to the girly-girls and boyish-boys crap for quite some time now.

I give up.

Date: 2010-07-22 03:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] totherme.livejournal.com
http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=1883

Date: 2010-07-22 03:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] inamac.livejournal.com
So much this.

Though despite being born in the 50s I was remarkably lucky in that my parents bought me toys I wanted - though Dad was slightly upset that, given the choice, I demanded a steam train set instead of the Scalectrix he really wanted me to play with.

So yes. We are going backwards.

(And why a *pink* vet outfit?)

Date: 2010-07-22 03:24 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dyddgu.livejournal.com
Though I suspect I will get flamed or something, I just want to point out that, in the self-protection circles I move in at any rate, the same advice is given to men and women in a similar vein to the Latitude thing (ie it is not a brilliant idea to become incapacitated or be somewhere that is dangerous, as shits will take advantage, whatever your gender.)

All the rest is Fail.

Date: 2010-07-22 03:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sebastienne.livejournal.com
Not flamed, exactly; but I will be compelled to point out that risk factors for theft and risk factors for rape are not as analogous as many people seem to think (http://fugitivus.wordpress.com/2009/08/25/oh-one-more-thing/).

Date: 2010-07-22 03:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dyddgu.livejournal.com
I wasn't talking about theft, though, I was talking about being assaulted. Young men are in a very high risk category for assault, after all.

Date: 2010-07-22 03:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sebastienne.livejournal.com
I'll admit that's not something I know much about. Maybe men don't talk about it, but it's not something that seems prevalent among my men-friends in the way that sexual assault is among my female friends.

I'm going to accept, though, that you know more aobut this than I do. There's then a part of me that goes "then why aren't the non-sexual assaults at Latitude hitting the newsstands?". But the rest of me knows that it's because they just aren't exciting enough. Urgh I hate the world.

Date: 2010-07-22 03:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dyddgu.livejournal.com
That's about the size of it, on both counts. Young men are more likely to be assaulted in a being-beaten-up way than average, and the way to not get beaten up is to not get bladdered and go to dodgy pubs. Not to want to stereotype your male friends, but you may know more geeks and similar than the average as well ;-) In re your last point, I did a paper not so long ago about reports of assaults/public scares in 19thC newspapers, and it is only the ones that are "exciting" that make the news. It is shit.

(also, apologies if this is not too coherent, I'm all full of novocaine and consequently slightly fuzzy)

Date: 2010-07-22 03:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yond-cassius.livejournal.com
A couple of months ago, earlier in transition, and before I was going to a large LARP event where I was meeting strangers and trying to pass I had to go to a toy shop to get some stuff for the event. I came out pretty much in tears and feeling majorly triggered by how gendered everything was, if that makes sense.

And god, the Latitude link is awful and victim blaming and arrgh.

With regard to feminism "being done" one of the things that upsets me most is the way my parents talk about it. My mum only came close to agreeing with feminism as a label through feminist theology (Catholic), and my dad, who keeps on talking about "difference feminism" and how "feminists shouldn't want to be exactly the same as men"

Date: 2010-07-22 04:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sir-rosealot.livejournal.com
Who is you-know-who?

Date: 2010-07-22 04:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sebastienne.livejournal.com
A chap from Library School (http://sebastienne.livejournal.com/257191.html) who I thought in fresher's week was autistic-spectrum geeky, but turned out to be psycopath-creepy.

Date: 2010-07-22 05:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sir-rosealot.livejournal.com
Ahhh yes, that makes sense!

Date: 2010-07-22 05:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] steerpikelet.livejournal.com
<3s you. Seriously. I'm trying to hang on to my rage right now and this is such, such bullshit.

Can I re-blog the ELC stuff? With quotes/accreditation however you wish. It seems important.
From: [identity profile] grignoter.livejournal.com
Heh. I remember asking you the same thing about queer rights. ("Haven't we sort of *got* those by now?")

It was ignorance in me, it's ignorance in everyone else. Frank_snow is right, it's a very clever way to keep people divided.

Date: 2010-07-22 07:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] necaris.livejournal.com
Maybe men don't talk about it

That's part of it, yes. I can only speak from personal experience here but even most of the geekboys I know (including myself) are well-enough indoctrinated by the kyriarchy to suppress any mention of stuff like that because it is a Sign Of Weakness, y'know.

Date: 2010-07-22 07:35 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] meadb.livejournal.com
Argh! That post makes me so angry!
From: [identity profile] sebastienne.livejournal.com
Oh, I know, I know. Education is more productive than rage, and most of the time, I can live up to that ideal. I'm glad that you stuck around. xx

Date: 2010-07-22 08:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sebastienne.livejournal.com
The ELC stuff originally came from a post on [livejournal.com profile] theladiesloos. It's here (http://community.livejournal.com/theladiesloos/13459441.html) if you're a member. This (http://pinkstinks.wordpress.com/2009/11/29/early-learning-centre-emergency-learning-emergency-by-may-carolan/) link from the comments is particularly interesting.

Date: 2010-07-23 03:32 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sebastiality.livejournal.com
"If you think feminism's done, get the fuck off this planet."

Feet firmly on the ground.

Thanks for linking to that rape-prevention list.

Date: 2010-07-26 10:01 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sebastienne.livejournal.com
Hello! It's a you! You have correctly divined that this is by far the best (..only?) way to keep up with me because I basically suck at any form of direct conversation.

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